I dont think that is the outcome.
I just believe if you were an idiot, you should pay for all the services
you require. Darwin awards are not about "letting" someone die. They
are about someone who did something stupid and got killed. There is a
gigantic difference.
---------
Phil Chambers [ptchamb@svpal.org] (S.F. Bay Area - Calif. USA)
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, Mark P.Brada wrote:
>
> On Oct 29, 2004, at 12:00 PM, Richard Ozer wrote:
>
> > Low blow... not deserved.
> >
>
> Perhaps not, and I don't mean to foment anger. I do, however, feel
> appalled by the proposition that people should be left to die if they
> make a careless mistake (which is, of course, underlying notion of the
> Darwin award).
>
>
> > The point Richard is trying to make is that we need to return to a
> > culture
> > of "personal responsibility." This is a huge and bloated philosophical
> > topic that can be applied to everything from the CDPR to our foreign
> > oil
> > dependence. It really has nothing to do with humanity and empathy. I
> > feel
> > sorry for anyone who needs an emergency airlift and I would not
> > hesitate to
> > pay fees or taxes that insure the availability of such services.
> > However,
> > if my life was saved by an emergency airlift, I would be more than
> > willing
> > to pay for the privelege, or have purchased an insurance policy, or
> > have to
> > do some kind of community service in exchange (if I didn't have the
> > money).
> > I'm sure that anyone else who was rescued in such a manner would agree.
> >
>
> Naturally I agree with this argument, as would any reasonable person.
> Whether the rescued person can pay for the operation, and whether we
> should bolster insurance companies merely so we can take a jaunt in the
> forest is another question, entirely. The question of personal
> responsibility is really at the heart of the American identity, in my
> opinion. We, as a group, generally feel that our own actions can
> control our position in life. And it is a lack of personal
> responsibility that has partially lead, for example, to the over
> zealous litigiousness in our society. What? My wife died while hiking
> at night in the winter with no clothes on? It must be the State's
> fault for not properly warning her, and hence I will sue.
>
>
>
> > But, without any hard evidence that nighttime use of parks is
> > inherently
> > more dangerous than daytime use, your justifications for why the park
> > might
> > want to impose restrictions is specious.
> >
> Here I find your otherwise well thought out points to fall a bit short.
> Not being affiliated with the park service at any level, I don't have
> those figures available, but I strongly suspect the "hard evidence" you
> seek exists. Indeed, there was an article in Outdoor magazine a few
> years ago (98 maybe?) that detailed many of the nighttime problems
> encountered in the nation's parks and open spaces, including gang
> violence, ritual slayings and so on and so forth.
>
> This is completely beside the point, however. The reality that we
> currently live in is (I believe...and I may be wrong here) that we DO
> have to pay when someone gets lost and is in need of rescue. I'm not
> suggesting some hypothetical reality in which--Hey...wouldn't it be
> great if people would pay for their own rescues? What I am saying is
> that in the reality we live in, in order to limit our own fiduciary
> responsibilities for others misjudgments, there needs to be some limits
> to people's access to certain freedoms. Indeed, this argument has
> circled in this forum before, and I don't really wish to rehash the
> arguments now. My suspicion is that my argument will never convince
> those of you who believe that any government regulation is too much, so
> I will let the point drop.
>
> I appreciate the reasoned arguments on both sides, and I apologize for
> the snipe at R. Crisp (he's just such an easy target, I couldn't
> resist!)
>
> Peace,
>
> Mark
>
> > RO
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark P.Brada" <mpbrada@yahoo.com>
> > To: "The Astronomy Connection" <sf-bay-tac@seds.org>
> > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 11:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: [TAC] Re: Messier Monster Booted From Peak
> >
> >
> >>>
> >> Richard...ever hear of humanity? Empathy?
> >>
> >>> for hikers that are too stupid to prepare properly: have you ever
> >>> heard of
> >>> the "Darwin Awards"?
> >>>
> >>>
> >
>
>
Received on Fri Oct 29 13:30:05 2004